Another great post. I'm probably more a P2 and definitely getting tired of the relentless personal attacks on the manager and players.
Stepping back though, I do not have the emotional attachment to Spurs that many P1s have - so that explains how they react to some extent.
My emotional attachment is to the style of football that Ange wants his team to play. And when Spurs do that, they are the most watchable team in the PL.
Another great post. Point 2 is key for me; we’re not full strength and I still want him around for the long term. Whether that will happen is another thing as everything seems to be pointing to this Thursday as the tipping point.
Followed your posts for a little while and wanted to see your opinion. I have looked at some of your data behind the better performances (at least in terms of metrics), and while they do appear to be good, I can’t help but feel that it comes down to not being able to actually convert. It seems we, at least at one point, were able to get into dangerous positions but had difficulties capitalizing, and to my knowledge the data supported that (underperforming XG, etc.). How could we turn that around, or what would need to change?
But I think it's hard to say. We're more clinical than I thought we were. But what's harder to measure is how poor we seem to be at creating the final pass that leads to a shot, or the pass before that pass. In other words, eyes-wise, I see us break often with numbers in our favor and then misplace a pass and turn it over, or make the wrong decision and shut down a good opportunity. Maybe has to do with lack of fluidity with so many changes in the squad.
I checked that out the other day myself right after I commented. Interesting stuff. I agree with your assessment about that. It does seem we’re often not incisive enough with our decisions and it’s frustrating to know we could’ve done more when we get into those positions. Hoping we grow in confidence and the creativity keeps flowing
Something we seemed to excel at under Poch with our relative counter attacking style— we were clinical but had to be. Loved watching the chances flowing against AZ
The sheer scale of the injury crisis needs to be acknowledged WRT its effect off field as well. By which I mean, not only have we had to rely on a small group of players for too long thereby increasing their physical, mental and emotional loads without ideal time or opportunity to renew, how we play has also been modified in order to protect those players....with consequences.
In addition, and the thing that I don't think gets enough discussion, is that the available coaching time will have been massively reduced compared to what would have been planned for, so team and player training will basically have ground to a halt - it's reasonable to think that any refinements or evolutions to Angeball that might have taken place by now without the injury crisis just simply haven't happened. As a result, I can certainly accept that this is a major factor to why our team has struggled to look cohesive or well coached (because they just haven't been).
As mentioned in the Mar 4 post, we've lost a silly amount of games this year by 1 goal and who knows how those games would have gone if Ange had:
A. All our most of our leaders available to play
B. Healthy squad for rotation
C. No interruption to planned training sessions with a healthy squad so they can develop as players and a team
It's no wonder you regularly read the common suggestions that the team doesn't look like it's developing or that Angeball 'doesn't work at this level', that Ange 'has been found out' or 'isn't adapting' (words to that effect); well, I make it that they've missed out on around 4 months of proper, consistent training and ongoing development - basically been treading water since late last year.
My hope is that the injury crisis has abated and player availability means that they'll be able to start moving things along now so we can eventually see the next evolution of Angeball, because I believe that better is yet to come.
agree with your point that we haven't had much time to train - but also, it's specifically Ange's job to 'manage' these situations. Not sit there and say 'nothing I can do about it m8'. If he really can't make it work in these circumstances then it might be time to admit that no, angeball does not work at this level, in these circumstances
The problem with this way of thinking is it assumes you can take players who are not good and playing out of position and make them good, with tactics. I don't think that's true. It's certainly not about 'Angeball,' since Spurs haven't been able to play it for months.
And to the side of this, the fact that you're doing the 'mate' think here shows that you're coming at this from a place of personal prejudice. How the manager speaks (in terms of inflection or verbal tics or regionalisms) is not really anything to do with how he manages the football club.
You might not be able to make them 'good' players but good management is about mitigating the bad aspects of your squad, not aggravating them. And yes we haven't been able to play angeball for months but this is my point- if you cant play angeball then you need to have a contingency plan, a good one that works reasonably well. Being a top manager is quite literally about managing situations and creating successful outcomes, regardless of the limitations and challenges. Or at least creating non-disastrous outcomes.
I have no personal axe to grind. I dont know the man at all. Nobody does. I'm merely judging him on his ability to manage spurs, which is all anyone should really be judging him on. He uses the word mate a lot. So do I. It's not a problem as far as I'm concerned
He has been 'playing the contingency plan', clearly... The reality is that he's still relatively early in implementing his ideas of football and this has been massively disrupted by the injury crisis....so clearly, they'd still have to work to do on learning and developing the main style. How's he going to be able to train or implement an additional and different style of playing when they haven't even been able to work on the main style since last autumn?
"How's he going to be able to train or implement an additional and different style of playing when they haven't even been able to work on the main style since last autumn?"
Well like I said that's literally his job, to manage these situations and achieve good outcomes. If he can't implement his main style, and can't implement a successful contingency plan that works, then he's not really fit for purpose. For me, the main job of a manager is to achieve successful results - by hook or by crook. If for whatever reason you are unable to implement your main style then you need to be able to adapt, successfully. Not be an idealogue
Not that your points aren't valid, they certainly are in some contexts. However, consider that Ange's remit is more long term - he's there to rebuild a squad, change a culture and implement a new playing philosophy. Results matter, but he's there to do much more than just get results by any means necessary... They tried that with Jose and Conte, remember?
Another great post. I'm probably more a P2 and definitely getting tired of the relentless personal attacks on the manager and players.
Stepping back though, I do not have the emotional attachment to Spurs that many P1s have - so that explains how they react to some extent.
My emotional attachment is to the style of football that Ange wants his team to play. And when Spurs do that, they are the most watchable team in the PL.
Another great post. Point 2 is key for me; we’re not full strength and I still want him around for the long term. Whether that will happen is another thing as everything seems to be pointing to this Thursday as the tipping point.
Followed your posts for a little while and wanted to see your opinion. I have looked at some of your data behind the better performances (at least in terms of metrics), and while they do appear to be good, I can’t help but feel that it comes down to not being able to actually convert. It seems we, at least at one point, were able to get into dangerous positions but had difficulties capitalizing, and to my knowledge the data supported that (underperforming XG, etc.). How could we turn that around, or what would need to change?
I've thought similarly myself, and looked into it a little bit here: https://profspur.substack.com/p/big-chances
But I think it's hard to say. We're more clinical than I thought we were. But what's harder to measure is how poor we seem to be at creating the final pass that leads to a shot, or the pass before that pass. In other words, eyes-wise, I see us break often with numbers in our favor and then misplace a pass and turn it over, or make the wrong decision and shut down a good opportunity. Maybe has to do with lack of fluidity with so many changes in the squad.
I checked that out the other day myself right after I commented. Interesting stuff. I agree with your assessment about that. It does seem we’re often not incisive enough with our decisions and it’s frustrating to know we could’ve done more when we get into those positions. Hoping we grow in confidence and the creativity keeps flowing
Something we seemed to excel at under Poch with our relative counter attacking style— we were clinical but had to be. Loved watching the chances flowing against AZ
We are actually the most clinical team in the league when it comes to finishing big chances
I'm for sure P2 in this convo.
The sheer scale of the injury crisis needs to be acknowledged WRT its effect off field as well. By which I mean, not only have we had to rely on a small group of players for too long thereby increasing their physical, mental and emotional loads without ideal time or opportunity to renew, how we play has also been modified in order to protect those players....with consequences.
In addition, and the thing that I don't think gets enough discussion, is that the available coaching time will have been massively reduced compared to what would have been planned for, so team and player training will basically have ground to a halt - it's reasonable to think that any refinements or evolutions to Angeball that might have taken place by now without the injury crisis just simply haven't happened. As a result, I can certainly accept that this is a major factor to why our team has struggled to look cohesive or well coached (because they just haven't been).
As mentioned in the Mar 4 post, we've lost a silly amount of games this year by 1 goal and who knows how those games would have gone if Ange had:
A. All our most of our leaders available to play
B. Healthy squad for rotation
C. No interruption to planned training sessions with a healthy squad so they can develop as players and a team
It's no wonder you regularly read the common suggestions that the team doesn't look like it's developing or that Angeball 'doesn't work at this level', that Ange 'has been found out' or 'isn't adapting' (words to that effect); well, I make it that they've missed out on around 4 months of proper, consistent training and ongoing development - basically been treading water since late last year.
My hope is that the injury crisis has abated and player availability means that they'll be able to start moving things along now so we can eventually see the next evolution of Angeball, because I believe that better is yet to come.
agree with your point that we haven't had much time to train - but also, it's specifically Ange's job to 'manage' these situations. Not sit there and say 'nothing I can do about it m8'. If he really can't make it work in these circumstances then it might be time to admit that no, angeball does not work at this level, in these circumstances
The problem with this way of thinking is it assumes you can take players who are not good and playing out of position and make them good, with tactics. I don't think that's true. It's certainly not about 'Angeball,' since Spurs haven't been able to play it for months.
And to the side of this, the fact that you're doing the 'mate' think here shows that you're coming at this from a place of personal prejudice. How the manager speaks (in terms of inflection or verbal tics or regionalisms) is not really anything to do with how he manages the football club.
You might not be able to make them 'good' players but good management is about mitigating the bad aspects of your squad, not aggravating them. And yes we haven't been able to play angeball for months but this is my point- if you cant play angeball then you need to have a contingency plan, a good one that works reasonably well. Being a top manager is quite literally about managing situations and creating successful outcomes, regardless of the limitations and challenges. Or at least creating non-disastrous outcomes.
I have no personal axe to grind. I dont know the man at all. Nobody does. I'm merely judging him on his ability to manage spurs, which is all anyone should really be judging him on. He uses the word mate a lot. So do I. It's not a problem as far as I'm concerned
He has been 'playing the contingency plan', clearly... The reality is that he's still relatively early in implementing his ideas of football and this has been massively disrupted by the injury crisis....so clearly, they'd still have to work to do on learning and developing the main style. How's he going to be able to train or implement an additional and different style of playing when they haven't even been able to work on the main style since last autumn?
"How's he going to be able to train or implement an additional and different style of playing when they haven't even been able to work on the main style since last autumn?"
Well like I said that's literally his job, to manage these situations and achieve good outcomes. If he can't implement his main style, and can't implement a successful contingency plan that works, then he's not really fit for purpose. For me, the main job of a manager is to achieve successful results - by hook or by crook. If for whatever reason you are unable to implement your main style then you need to be able to adapt, successfully. Not be an idealogue
Not that your points aren't valid, they certainly are in some contexts. However, consider that Ange's remit is more long term - he's there to rebuild a squad, change a culture and implement a new playing philosophy. Results matter, but he's there to do much more than just get results by any means necessary... They tried that with Jose and Conte, remember?